lemurgoddess: Interesting quote...

lemurgoddess (

lemurgoddess) wrote,
@ 2006-08-30 10:53:00

Entry tags:

culture and politics

Interesting quote...
christianity aside, kill them before they kill us. i know christ died for them too, but there's just NO talking to those radical islamofascists.

The above is a quote from someone I found on another LJ'er's post about muslims (specifically the crazy ones). Now from what is said here I gather that the speaker is a Christian. And if this is true, there is something seriously off in this statement.

There is a depressing, pathetic, and scary irony when christians make such statements. Not just because "kill them before they kill us" is so totally the antithesis of Jesus' nature (He had people who violently hated him, and remember how that turned out?) but it becomes incredibly disturbing when it is placed along side an understanding of the compassionate essence of Jesus (He died for EVERYONE).

Now, I know we aren't Jesus. But isn't a large part of being a Christian following the teaching of Jesus Christ and do your best to be more Christ-like?

When you wish to "kill them before they kill us" that is placing a greater value on your own life then that of your "enemies." What would Jesus say about that?

When you wish to "kill them before they kill us" you've already filled your heart with the murderer's sin. You have cast out all compassion, you have given up on any chance of peace. You are already a killer, a sinner, and a willing tool of Satan. What would Jesus say about that?

When you wish to "kill them before they kill us" you are acknowledging that it is alright to take a life, commit an egregious sin, to save your own skin. What would Jesus say about that?

Again, I'm not completely sure the person who stated the above is a Christian, but I have heard many a Christian state similiar comments. And such things just blow my mind. How can you, as a supposed follower of Christ and his ways DARE to even think your are in any sort of position to kill for ANY REASON?!

Most who do, seem to reply on weak justifications that drastically contort their belief system. BUt before you conjure up excuses why its in Jesus' best interest to annhilate an group of people (ala Holocaust... ironic), just take a second to seriously consider what Jesus would do in the face of such a threat.

I bet you absolutely understand what He would do.

And, if you are truly a follower of Christ, you had better be prepared to be hung up on that cross with Him.

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angieohgirl
2006-08-30 03:29 pm UTC (link)

Out of a 4 paragraph post you took one two sentence/1 paragraph statement from this person?

You know I find it interesting that you would demand your right to your own thoughts and feelings no matter your or others opinions on it or even if it is condratictory in another's view but since this person has a human feeling about this you go off on them.

Sometimes I think we forget that some people have heavy thoughts about this and there may be background reasons for it. Whether it be a more personal insight into this war, a family member in the military, someone close to them who was killed by a terrorist. Sometimes we are more quick to judge fast and very slow to look at their side or reason for their statement.

However I do appreciate that you didn't post a name or anything.

But then again Christians are always open season for slams because people forget that we aren't perfect and for the most part we are all stupid lemmings, right?

(Reply to this) (Thread)

lemurgoddess
2006-08-30 03:54 pm UTC (link)

Out of a 4 paragraph post you took one two sentence/1 paragraph statement from this person?

I understand the person said much more, but this is only the part that struck me as odd.

You know I find it interesting that you would demand your right to your own thoughts and feelings no matter your or others opinions on it or even if it is condratictory in another's view but since this person has a human feeling about this you go off on them.

Correct. I demand my right to my own opinion, and I openly defend another's right to their opinion. But as part of that freedom is the right to disagree and criticize people's opinions. Having a right to an opinion, does not mean that you should be shielded from criticism. In fact, I think it is dreadfully important that we DO call each other upon such details. I question and critize other's statements, as I would pray they would criticize mine!

Sometimes I think we forget that some people have heavy thoughts about this and there may be background reasons for it. Whether it be a more personal insight into this war, a family member in the military, someone close to them who was killed by a terrorist.

I absolutely understand that people have passionate (and sometimes contradictory) opinions due to individual cicrumstances. But that doesn't mean that what they say should be immune to criticism.

sometimes we are more quick to judge fast and very slow to look at their side or reason for their statement.

Just for the record, I am not judging anyone. I just find that particular statement (and others like it) to be somewhat contradictory, when a Christian encouraging the killing of others. There is a difference between questioning someones logic and viewpoint, without attacking or judging the person themselves.

To be honest, I would absolutely love how a follower of Christ can justify killing others. I've heard arguments in the past, and don't believe they hold much weight, but I'm always open to hearing more. I seriously want to know how an individual manages to satisfy this posisble contradiciton.

But then again Christians are always open season for slams because people forget that we aren't perfect and for the most part we are all stupid lemmings, right?

I don't agree with that lemming statement one bit! Christians are certainly not perfect... I expect them to be no more perfect than any other individual. We are all just human right? The thing is, that Jesus set the ethical bar quite high -- so much so that it is quite a feat to follow his example. I think that this is why Christians can often be on the recieving end of a lot of criticism, the teaching of their Savior demand a certain ethical standard that most people have trouble living up to. The discrepency between The Teaching and The Living can be rather large, and becomes quite apparant to the observer.

Again, my commentary is less about this particular individual. I know very little about him/her and don't wish to make any assumptions and as a result, don't wish to pass judgements on them.

Really, I'm addressing a more general concern. How does a Christian justify the destruction of any life? How do you reconcile the teachings of Jesus and the acts of war?

I mean it truly when I ask for input and insight into these quandries.

(Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)

angieohgirl
2006-08-30 05:51 pm UTC (link)

First as I stated to Steph, I am in a pissy mood right now so it isn't taking much to have me go off.

You stated things much better in the reply to my comment but here is the deal.

As Christians most of us know that Jesus is the ultimate of being able to live. However we all are human with human emotions and reactions. We can try our best to strive to be more Christ-like. As you said it is quite a feat to follow His example. I try my best but I know I fall short. Doesn't mean I try to do better. I look back at my life pre-Christian (before I was 24) and know that I am much further and able to handle things much better than I was then.

How does a Christian justify destruction of life? Or go to an act of war? Interesting question. Also, a tough question. How do you try your best to protect and secure our country who has many that demand that we not be based on biblical principles? If we do go strict by those principles then don't we just allow in all the terrorists and just love them as they stick the barrels of their guns at our heads (for instance, the reporters who were forced by gunpoint to go to the Islamic faith) but how does that sit with people who do not believe in biblical thoughts?

Remember that Jesus did go into the temple and throw over merchants and caused a stir. But will just showing that we have strength to those who really could care less do anything? Their (the extremists-which there are many) thought is kill the infidels or be killed and take a few infidels with you. How do you negotiate with that? This has nothing to do with land, oil and such but has everything to do with the lifestyle of the 'west' and also our not being islam/muslim. You and I, if the extremists were pandered to, would be first on their death list. I might be a little higher just because I am also Christian.

I can understand my friends anger. I don't think she is less a Christian because she stated what she did. She has done and gone through a lot and I am happy to be her friend. However I know her enough that she is talking about the extremists and those who are focused and anxious to kill us ... she isnt talking about all muslim.

(Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)

lemurgoddess
2006-08-31 02:31 pm UTC (link)

First off, thanks for the mention about being in a "pissy mood." Information like that can help put your comment in a better context... especially in the internet world where body language and other cues are absent.

I believe I totally understand where you are coming from on this subject. Its a strange and sticky situation, how one reconciles their faith in the teachings of Jesus Christ and the modern world. It's a scary place out there. I do think that the actions of many Modern Christians can come off as a little counter to their faith -- and in the case of the preachy ones, such actions paint them a little hypocritical. But that's silly humans for ya! XD

So I'm not going to launch into any grand criticism, and tell you (or your friend) are not a "True Christian" or other such foolishness. That's not my intention. I'm just curious about how religion and politics come together in peoples minds.

(Reply to this) (Parent)

	serenitysgaze 2006-08-30 03:57 pm UTC (link)
	But then again Christians are always open season... Darn... I missed the annoucement... where's my bloody gun :) people forget that we aren't perfect... Uhwhaaaaaaaaat????? ;) and for the most part we are all stupid lemmings, right? No comment :) :P I love ya, really :) (Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)

angieohgirl
2006-08-30 05:28 pm UTC (link)

Forgive me. Had some rough days since Friday. Sprained wrist, got yelled at for my nutrition (cant people see Im trying to die by eating bad?), finger is still swollen and is making guitar playing hard and the ceiling in my office fell in yesterday after many weeks of having rain leak in on me.

Im in a peachy mood. ;) Im debating strapping guns on the front of my car for the next person who cuts me off.

(Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)

serenitysgaze
2006-08-30 05:31 pm UTC (link)

Im debating strapping guns on the front of my car for the next person who cuts me off.

[Error: Irreparable invalid markup ('<dr.>') in entry. Owner must fix manually. Raw contents below.]

<i>Im debating strapping guns on the front of my car for the next person who cuts me off.</i>

<Dr. Evil>
I want my car with frikin' laaaasers on the front.
Is that so much to ask?
A car with frikin' laaaasers?
</Dr. Evil>

(Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)

	serenitysgaze 2006-08-30 05:32 pm UTC (link)
	Damn LJ HTML parser! (Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)

angieohgirl
2006-08-30 05:54 pm UTC (link)

Not sure if you ever played this game or not, but did you ever play the PS2 video game 'Twisted Metal'? That game brought to mind many ways to make a car more lethal.

I remember after playing too much of it with friends, going and driving and pressing imaginary buttons on my steering wheel to throw grenades, shot lasers, lay a landmine, etc... lol. Kind of like Deathrace 2000 in game form.

(Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)

	serenitysgaze 2006-08-30 05:57 pm UTC (link)
	Back in the UK, when I had a car in the early 1990's, I had this little electronic box that "fired" lasers, bombs, etc... Incredibly childish, but often a great stress-relief on busy motorways full of numpties who couldn't drive to save themselves... "Cut me off, will you..? bzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzt!" (Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)

re-posted due to spelling error.

angieohgirl
2006-08-30 06:20 pm UTC (link)

LOL - I think I remember seeing those.

Only thing Ive been known to do is if I get cut off by some speed freak I will rear up on them and tailgate them and then blow by them at break neck speed and then slow down. :) Evil but somehow I felt better. However that only works with my Supra. I have been getting better with that tho. Too many speeding tickets have a tendency to calm you down.

(Reply to this) (Parent)

	artsygirlstace 2006-08-30 03:37 pm UTC (link)
	I believe Jesus said "turn the other cheek" or "buy your enemies gifts" or something... =) (Reply to this)

	i KNOW, man! (Anonymous) 2006-08-30 04:01 pm UTC (link)
	In no way would I consider myself a Christian, but thank you, B.E. "Christianity aside" my ass. (Reply to this)

specsteve
2006-08-30 08:08 pm UTC (link)

That's an interesting question: How can you, as a supposed follower of Christ and his ways DARE to even think your are in any sort of position to kill for ANY REASON?!
See, I'm a Christian, and a member of the United States Army. One of the paragraphs of the Soldier's Creed is "I stand ready to deploy, engage, and destroy the enemies of the United States in close combat." Now I've never done it, but I like to think that I am capable of such an act. But according to this I would have no vindication, as both a Christian and a soldier, for such an act. If I ever did, I wouldn't be a Christian. Unless "Thou shalt not kill" actually more accurately translates as "Thou shalt not murder," the latter being the more generally accepted interpretation of the Commandment.
But maybe there's this: I do it so that other men can be free to lead violence free lives, utterly deprived of my own moral dilemma. So that hopefully my sons and daughters can lead violence free lives. The advantage of living in America where, according to the Constitution I am sworn to defend, everyone is free, and I can only hope that this means they are free to not kill each other. I don't know that it's a perfect vindication. I don't know if it's any vindication. But when I pray to God, I don't feel like the idea that I am resolved to kill if necessary is something that keeps my prayers from reaching His Throne. And I still get to sleep at night, and call myself a Christian when I rise in the morning.
Just a thought.

(Reply to this) (Thread)

lemurgoddess
2006-08-31 02:37 pm UTC (link)

Thank you so much for sharing your view points.

And I hear you about the "Thou shall not murder" interpretation, but I would say that it seem pretty obvious from the teachings of Jesus and the writings of Paul that the way of aggression and the act of taking life, whether justified by the law of the land, is still not "on the mark."

And I definately agree with the "fighting to guarantee freedoms" idea -- soldiers shed blood so that the general populace need not get it on their own hands. And for that I thank you.

This is a very interesting topic, indeed.

(Reply to this) (Parent)

	artsygirlstace 2006-08-31 03:19 pm UTC (link)
	If this is true, can you reference some scripture (and the context therein) that supports killing that isn't murder? I'd be interested to see it. I don't recall any such scripture but its been awhile since I've opened a Bible. =) (Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)

	specsteve 2006-09-04 07:40 pm UTC (link)
	There are numerous references to killing as part of self-defense or protection of property as being allowed by the Torah. (Reply to this) (Parent)

	poelaramont 2006-08-30 08:12 pm UTC (link)
	Your words are true. Thank you for posting them. (Reply to this)

paradox_puree
2006-08-31 06:05 pm UTC (link)

*randomly wanders onto your LJ*

I think I saw the saw the same entry you reference here. It really disturbed me, TBH. I really find it small-minded to decide that the only way to resolve any conflict is to "kill them all" or something.

"OMG, Terists!"
"Kill them all!"

It's this kind of racism and extremism that lead to the WW2 internment camps for Asian-Americans, IMO. Whatever happened to diplomacy, etc.

As for the religious side of things, it amuses me that Christians put Islam down so much for their "kill-the-infidel" attitude, when there are biblical passages demanding the same behavior from those of the Judeo-Christian traditions. One example among many is Deuteronomy, 17:2-7:
17:2 If there be found among you, within any of thy gates which the LORD thy God giveth thee, man or woman, that hath wrought wickedness in the sight of the LORD thy God, in transgressing his covenant,
17:3 And hath gone and served other gods, and worshipped them, either the sun, or moon, or any of the host of heaven, which I have not commanded;
17:4 And it be told thee, and thou hast heard of it, and enquired diligently, and, behold, it be true, and the thing certain, that such abomination is wrought in Israel:
17:5 Then shalt thou bring forth that man or that woman, which have committed that wicked thing, unto thy gates, even that man or that woman, and shalt stone them with stones, till they die.

(Reply to this) (Thread)

lemurgoddess
2006-08-31 07:11 pm UTC (link)

You make very good points (and thanks for making your way over to my LJ ;) ).

The Old Testament was a regular snuff-fest. And if you hold that as true, then you are indeed in an odd position to criticize the violent passages in the books of other faiths.

I've found many Christian are hard-pressed to explain away the passages where God calls for the destruction of whole peoples or when his prophets summon bears to kill children. Most side-step the inquery and say that we shouldn't hold God up against human standards of right and wrong. And of course, I would respond, where did we get those standards to begin with? \:|

(Reply to this) (Parent)

	dragonguyver 2006-09-06 02:49 am UTC (link)
	I <3 j00, Bri. lol. Seriously. This is exactly why these faux-christian types can't stand individuals like you and me, because we know more about and understand better their own damn religion. Ignorance is their only defence for hate-mongering and violence. (Reply to this)

(21 comments) - (Post a new comment)

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